China's Choices
Choices that will have major global implications
There are no answers, just choices, this is one place to follow the choices that China makes. This nation of 1.3 billion people is faced with the daunting task of building on its 30 years of unprecedented economic development without further damage to its environment. How is it going to do this and how is that effort going to impact the rest of the world? ...learn more
GROUP DETAILS
Created: Dec 18, 2007
Updated: Nov 02, 2009
Membership: Open
Public
Topic: The Lead Health Issue and a Historical Perspective
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Lead IS an example that lies in the lap of people IN China that let this happen. China is not a top down country when it comes to manufacturing; the decisions are made regionally and locally. What goes into paint, plastics, the raw materials that go into the stuff of stuff, those decisions are not made out side of China but inside.
Trade decisions are what really are behind all of this - that of course gets you to mega monsters like Wal-Mart and governments like our own Congress - make it cheap and fast and very profitable and we all are happy. Now that is where you can start blaming, if your are into blaming. That’s one of the reasons China Makes Crap, I agree, but I’m not letting China off the hook, because they are as big a villain in all of this as we are. I see it quite simply, it seems we are stuck with the most externalized manufacturing mess what our politicians let happen and that is also part of the problem. So the rules and regs that we have in this country about lead for example don't apply in China. We let that happen – maybe, but maybe not. China is becoming as big a poisoner of its people and us, as we are of our selves and the world. Basically “climate change” is really poising the planet - planet poising. To get anyone’s attention on this is the problem and to get something done about it is the next problem. By call this "group" China Makes Crap I got a little attention, not much, I admit. For example all the crap that comes through the port of Long Beach, California is trucked out of the city past grade-schools kids and because of the pollutions that is created by this mass moving of stuff, it's affecting their health. So who's to pay? It ain't going to be China or Wal-Mart, no it's the kids and the kids family. It goes on and on with all these costs, to health, environment, resources, air - it's time to start thing in larger patterns. Some of us are not pattern thinkers, some are, but we need more of them so we can start really defining the larger purpose that we have to work towards. It used to be called the “big picture”, I prefer pattern thinking, other call it connecting the dots, tell that’s done we really don’t understand our purpose. The sequence of struggle starts with purpose, I don’t think we share a big enough purpose and before we understand that, there’s no way to set a frame let along a strategy. But that’s OK, we’re starting to think about it and that’s better than not thinking about it. So here’s my question, from the larger pattern that could emerge from our assessments, is that assessment going to create an all encompassing purpose that ALL of us can share and work towards? I hope so. |
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Hey, all:
Hey, Frank: We are in fact not as far apart in our positions as it might appear. I just don't think that China is entirely to blame. The decisions made can come at many points, since companies with brands sub work out to others, who sub things out, who sub things out, etc. Such things as paint specified can be changed at any of these points. "Plausible deniability" may be a motive here and can take effect anywhere from USA corporate offices to the assembly line. I would never say you or we should let China off the hook, but as you say, there is a big picture, patterns, or dots to be connected. My example of Lead is just one part of the big picture or patterns, or connecting dots. You could substitute Cadmium or Mercury in my discussion and the statements are no less true. To offer an answer to your question and to draw several items together, I do think we can have a larger purpose to share and work toward. However, this group name and topic is too narrow and the lack of acceptance indicate a too-small picture. We do need a group that embraces all consumer health and safety concerns, much the same way "Greenwashed" does for its subject. David Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun! |
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Hey all,
An excellent point on this "outsourcing pollution" issue @ http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/12/the_hypocrisy_o.php Bowo |
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just a technical note on the presence of lead in the body - you do need a little, it's considered a "trace element" so trying to completely eradicate lead from your body might be a bad idea. don't get me wrong, i certainly believe that lead paint and other dangerous chemicals in consumer goods is bad bad bad, but the biochemistry should be accurately represented.
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Hey, all:
Hey, Austic: Read this, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning "Lead has no known biological role in the body. The toxicity comes from its ability to mimic other biologically important metals, the most notable of which are calcium, iron and zinc. Lead is able to bind to and interact with the same proteins and molecules as these metals, but after displacement, those molecules function differently and fail to carry out the same reactions, such as in producing enzymes necessary for certain biological processes." The key portion is "Lead has no known biological role in the body." Compare that statement to what I said originally. And this, from the same source: "Humans have been mining and using this heavy metal for thousands of years, poisoning themselves in the process due to accumulation and exposure. The dangers have also long been known. Reducing the hazard requires both individual actions and public policy regulations. Blood lead levels once considered safe are now considered hazardous, with no known threshold." Again, key portion: "Blood lead levels once considered safe are now considered hazardous, with no known threshold." And again, compare. Now tell us again, that "...you do need a little, it's considered a "trace element"...", and "...the biochemistry should be accurately represented." David Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun! |
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Just a pair of quick observations from environmental chemistry and medicine might help. These are two very clear, stark facts that apply to Lead in living organisms. 1) There is no safe level of Lead in organisms. In other words, any level of Lead can be and is often harmful. 2) There is no known metabolic purpose for Lead in any living organism. Note the hedge phrase "...no known metabolic purpose...". This has to be said despite decades of research that has never revealed any purpose for Lead, since there COULD be some obscure purpose not yet revealed. Despite the hedge phrase, no such purpose is ever likely to be found.
These two observations are related and complement each other. There is no known purpose for Lead, and when present, can be and is often harmful, and in the smallest amounts.
This gets to the issue of Lead in any products--ANY products, ANYwhere--not just Chinese-made products. Not just products sold to the USA. This is a global issue, since we are facing the highly unpopular prospect, driven by the Corporate Oligarchy, of Gobbleization becoming the business model under which we must try and make progress. When the USA was the manufacturer for the World, it is likely there was Lead in those products. We certainly sold paint with Lead as an ingredient. After World War II when Japan was rebuilt and "Made in Japan" was a curse, USA industrialists were a part of the process, so we have to take some share of the blame for that period.
The history is clear--we in the USA did it, Japan did so in their turn, and now China is doing so. As such, China is perhaps 50 years behind, as they are in many other fields, and will have to catch up. The increase in volume and speed of information is the only difference in these stages in history, coupled with a much better understanding of the dangers of Lead. What remains to be seen is if the usual hubris and arrogance and distractions of Big Bidness continues to blind us to this history, and causes us to miss who is actually responsible.
David
Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun!