Topic: Wiser Religion/ Heaven on Earth?
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The mainstream U.S. national media made fun of those Tom Cruise clips, casually brushed off scientology... but if you really look at it, isn't there some substance there? Is the idea of 'Wiser Earth' -- the IDEAL of a wiser earth -- a metaphorical pill to quiet our fear of the self-destructive artistic part of us that we cannot understand/ know? Will the next major global conflict be based on the idea that a 'Wiser Earth' is (in the words of Tom Cruise) a 'crime against humanity'?
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There is a small degree of substance there I am sure. The media usually reflects the feelings of most people, especially expected viewing audiences. Scientology is a pretty strange movement. I don't think the idea of 'Wiser Earth' is a metaphorical pill. The idea of WiserEarth is to facilitate the success of members of our Civil Society.
I have no idea what you mean by the destructive artistic part of us that we can't understand. Please be more clear. How could an online social networking tool aimed at representing and aiding a movement within Civil Society constitute a crime against humanity? I fail to see the connection (although I must admit, I was unable to read through all of your posts due to their length and lack of paragraph breaks). Thanks |
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To reiterate: I like wiser earth the site, in fact I think it is great! And I am not attacking it or anything to do with it, the name is thought-provoking..
My comments were directed at the implied idea of a 'wiser earth'; the ideal of 'a just and sustainable world created by community'. And looking back at it I was not being that clear; the idea was evolving... I will try to be clear/ explain: Lets theoretically say that we all worked together globally over the next 75-100 years and succeded and achieved a 'wiser earth', overcame the present challenges of diminishing resources, climate change, conflict, etc. etc.(x infinite) We achieved 'a just and sustainable world created by community' -- for the purposes of discussion, a 'heaven' on earth, a reality of the ideal... in other words what could be considered from a pragmatic rational standpoint an 'idealistic notion'. A utopia of sorts. Its not that hard to believe that something along those lines might be possible given our rapidly changing times, advancements in science/ technology, communication etc. Everything was 'perfect'.... My point is wouldn't that undermine our humanity?... There would be no struggle, no counter-culture movements(no need; we reached the ideal, everyone is happy/ content, there is no lacking of anything/ no need). Creative/ brilliant/ artistic/ dynamic/ influential people (who change the world) seem often to be a product of less than IDEAL circumstances. So in our new IDEAL world, the environment that produces them would not exist. So we wouldn't have those people anymore. We would reduce our level of human-ness (our humanity), in an effort to prevent our demise. So the point I was developing is: That it could be argued that humanity is destined to destroy itself regardless of HOW.... so... The premise of the 'wiser earth' reactionary (according to ph, analagous to a human bodys immune system response) 'civil movement' seems to suppose that the current percieved threats of destruction; climate change, diminishing resources, conflict etc. that haunt humanity can be transcended (talk about a religious word) and that we can transform (talk about another religious word) our world into an ideal state. (A tool we can use to better do this is the great wiser earth web site(monitored by the great editors (the prophet paul h's disciplined disciples) who are putting up with the insurgent jt...) that expands our communication networks and allows to speed up the process by connecting with others. Humanity is defined ; the quality or condition of being human; human nature. Its the artistic part of us; literature/ art/ philosophy... 'Change' is a natural thing -- but 'tragedy' is a word we apply to describe change in the human context. Tragedy inspires art... the idea of art is unique to humanity. So if humanity is destined to destroy itself regardless of how... we work hard the next 75-100 years to reach our 'just and sustainable world created by community, our 'wiser earth'/ our ideal -- we outsmart the problems we face; climate change/ diminishing resources etc. and reach the perfect world... the WISER EARTH... but basically we just destroy/ reduce our humanity by trying to avoid our demise... in our 'wiser earth' we are no longer human. the attainment of that 'sterile' / 'neutral' 'non-violent' state of being is like a person on a pill prescribed by a pscyhiatrist; medicated because of percieved 'mental instability'. (But a lot of our greatest, most influential people - it could be argued - had some level of 'mental instability... mozart, lincoln, hemingway etc.) So we avoid a traumatic end to our world...but take a lethal injection instead... We dehumanize ourselves and continue to exist. (and maybe we would keep going in that direction, decreate ourselves into a second adolescense (is that what we are entering into now?)/ another infancy/ another coma-like embryonic period, than be finally quietly extinguished from the planet with a moment of inverted big-bang-like orgasm.) just a thought... |
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Hey JT (can I call you this?),
I've been following this thread with curiosity (though unable to read all of your words for similar reason as James). And I would say this: Perfection is a constantly moving target. One can only aspire and move TOWARD it, without really ever knowing whether or not one has reach that point. In short, both from my amateurish mind ventures in religion and philosophy, the ideal state, or perfection, is an unattainable goal, which, whether we like it or not, we must aim for (besides, what else to aim for?). I also think that imperfection is built into the fabric of universe, and because of it, the universe is perfect for us, imperfect beings. Thus, WiserEarth's slogan "Toward a Just and Sustainable World Created by Community" is just right for me because it is mindful enough to use the word "toward". Don't worry or fear too much of being perfect or seeing a perfect world, that's the least of your/our worries I think. Then you can channel that thinking and writing energy of yours to other more fruitful directions (just a friendly suggestion). Hope this answer some of your concerns JT :) |
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And to add a little. Notice that the name is not WiseEarth, but WiserEarth. Notice the perpetual movement to be "wiser" from time to time, instead of attaining/reaching a "wise" state and be stuck with it.
That's a perpetual process that is a lot of fun I think ;) |
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'wisdom' as defined by 'seeing through appearances' -- i was just trying to see thru the appearance of the idea of working 'toward' a 'wiserearth';
like the popular story; you break your leg -- you cant farm... good luck bad luck the army comes -- u dont have to go to war because you have a broken leg-- good luck bad luck etc.; as humans we apply the adjective 'tragic' to our end -- where it could be inevitable, a product of the natural changing cycle of life on earth; our hubris would destroy us even if we were able to 'transcend' the problems we have created. pointing out that the appeal/ success of wiserearth (just like barack obama's campaign) lies in the artistic/ convincing presentation of the idea that we can attain the impossible. i have lots of energy, dont worry about my energy level; just some harmless thoughts. thanks for the responses |
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and i covered 'toward' on the first post at the bottom of this page. about a 1/4 way down begins with ' the eastern thought version would.." hope that helps.
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Hey, all:
Thanks, James, for the suggestion to apply some simple rules of grammar and thought process in writing. In fact, I can't even read stuff, even if there may be substance, when it is just a bunch of rambling, disorganized, un-punctuated words and ersatz words. I see your suggestion took, but unfortunately, only temporarily. Even genius, without some ability to articulate, is misplaced. Even some ability to articulate, when withheld, insults and diminishes both the content and the reader. David Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun! |
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wel i understod meself jest purfect... no desire to insult the reader or the content or the website...
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The argument I was trying to make runs parallel to the idea that globalization will ultimately reduces the diverse elements of different cultures -- we become one peaceful global culture, which seems to be un-natural (not nature-based). Thus it seems to be a very human idea.
And there was no offense intended... just a thought provoking name for the website; its a good name and a great website. |
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Sustainable David;
My counter argument would be to you; WiserEarth is an 'ersatz' word / idea ... that in the context of my background/ understanding of language I have a hard time understanding the intended meaning. Thus the thought pattern exploring the meaning of the website name. Does the fact Cormac Mccarthy refuses to use quotations (even though he knows how) makes him inarticulate? If Arundahti Roy puts two word together to make an idea more immediate is that insulting? Does Salman Rushdie diminish the content of his books because he is writing from a different cultural perspective? Should James Joyce apologize for a run -on sentence in Ulysses? I am not presuming to compare myself to any of those language masters -- I am just suggesting that humility is a good quality in any reader in an effort to understand content. I was approaching the idea of a disscussion about the name 'wiser earth' with thoughtful humility, not criticism. jt |
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the idea more developed...
(* Isn't the whole idea of Wiser Earth a religious model? A prophecy of hope, an explanation for how things could work out? Phrases like 'natural capitalism', 'biomimicry' and 'wiser business' seem to succedde in their intended word-play. Wiser Earth seems different though. Does it suggest that the earth is superior; 'wiser'-- that we need to work to become like the earth. Earth worship through practice? Doesn't 'wiser' seem to anthropomorphize 'earth'. Doesn't that suggest the creation of the supernatural? 'A just and sustainable world' does not seem natural. If someone said that Wiser Earth did not make sense and was irrational/ not-natural would your instinct as a believer be to condemn them? The western thought version/ interpetation of the 'wiser' modifyer would be to say that Wiser Earth is attempting to improve upon the earth for the gain of humanity(which wouldn't work because who is humanity to decide what is right for the earth? -- isn't that direction of thought similar to that which fueled the industrial revolution? isn't that unnatural?)... The eastern thought version might suggest that the word 'wiser' conjures up the idea of the earth itself like the buddha, which works a little better in light of the idea of re-incarnation as the earth has passed thru natural cycles of extreme violence to life and subsequent improvement/ rebirth; ice age/ death of dinosaurs, formation of new/ improved terrestrial life(humans). But the problem lies in the idea that we are striving 'toward' a just and sustainable community, we are striving 'toward' re-incarnating/ transcending reality and thus forcing it (which conflicts with eastern thought: efforts not concerned with results; non-attachement/ acceptance/ letting go... 'wisdom' as defined by seeing through appearances). Either way isn't it hard to look at the phrase and honestly dis-prove that 'Wiser Earth' is logically/ rationally a type of religious model? A belief model-- people with similar beliefs are drawn to the ideal of a 'wiser earth'. We put faith in an idea; it doesn't seem to be a 'consumer' act of faith as much as a 'believer' act of faith... not an act resulting from the influence of market forces but an act resulting from a need to believe in the possibility of a 'sustaining and just' future, an unlikely (not natural) ideal. Like heaven? Do we all believe that we need to live 'right' to reach heaven, to reach our ideal of a 'just and sustainable world created by community'. Is wiser earth heaven on earth? Is that possible in light of human nature?... It seems to be flawed like the oxymoron 'Scientology'... conjures up those media clips of Tom Cruise with the manic light in his eye condemning psychiatry, the use of prescription medications to curve behavior... leads to the question would we have the genius in the music of Mozart if he lived today?... or would he be drooling on a cocktail of meds?
Doesn't the very idea of a 'just and sustainable world created by community' undermine the potential for tragedy? Undermine the potential for change? For art? Will the genius of Barack Obama's ability to influence inevitably (naturally) demand that he becomes a tragic figure, an expression of living art? Is self-destruction inevitable to genius, to ideas of genius... Is Wiser Earth's genius' idea vulnerable? Is that why it is genius -- because it essentially lacks a cultural/national/personal identity? That it is an artisitc, almost spiritual assimilation of things created by emotion?... Isn't there something to the idea that Barack Obama's wildfire-like political success in the current U.S. presidential race is a consequence of portraying himself as a 'religious' figure, an agent of change/ hope. Something for us to put our collective faith in (just like Wiser Earth)...? Something to believe in, perhaps someday die for? Isn't it easy to believe he would die for America? For us/ our values? Is it fair to say that that could become a likely scenario, more-than in respect to any other canidate/ U.S. President -- is that vulnerability in him due to his artistic genius?... Is his artistic talent destin him for tragedy? Is that talent like humanity, is that talent/ genius the very thing that defines humanity? Is humanity destined for tragic ends? Will belief in practice (living green etc.) save us from the end and let us reach our ideal, our 'wiser earth'?)*