Topic: composting
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Hey, all:
Hey, Dana: Well, I don't want to dominate the discussion, so maybe if I tell you something sublimely ridiculous, everyone will jump on me and straighten everyone out! Have you tried heaters, like several incandescent lightbulbs strung right over the pile, and maybe you should add lots and lots of animal scraps to your compost to add fat to the diet--hmmmm? How about an electrical turning device to keep the compost circulated--like a rotisserie? Okay, y'all, bring it! Actually, it sounds like maybe you need much more dry fiber in the pile's diet, and a lot less water. I am guessing the leaves are a seasonal (Fall) thing--if this is the case maybe a steady source of straw or lawn clippings added and turned into the compost will help. One big thing that can go wrong concerns water--decomposition is an aerobic process--needing air and a reasonable amount of moisture--but not saturated--to work properly. Aerobic conditions allow the bloom of thermophilic (heatloving) bacteria which causes the entire pile to heat up--the combination of less moisture content and high heat kills pathogens. Too much water creates anaerobic conditions which is when pathogenic bacteria survive or thrive--our old friend Escherichia coli, and lots of others. A telltale sign is stinky compost. Tarps can make things worse if they hold in moisture and contribute to anaerobic conditions. Better drainage of the compost area sounds indicated. Some sort of minimally elevated beds--or lower area surrounding--would help promote drainage away from the pile. Good permanent bins can use a slightly slanted concrete floor with 1-2 in. raised curbs and a drain at the lowest point. Catching this runoff works well since it is essentially "compost tea"--collect and pour on root area of plants. I hope this helps--and someone please else add something! This ain't a network fer nothin'! David Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun! |
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Hmmm got to love the NE slop. Yeah okay, David might be onto something with the insane amounts of strung up bulbs (solar or wind powered obviously) and constant rotation would aerate and fluff, but I think the straw and grass clippings are an excellent additive. The straw really creates incredible amounts of fluff- meaning air. The problem with lawn clippings is that they can hold a massive amount of moisture... Right now, if you're near me, you're under a thick blanket of white duff and I would suggest finding some locals who actually bed-down their beasties with straw. This could be the key to your manure mixture. I'll try to scoop up some more helpful hints for you other than straw...
Keep us posted on what you're trying and how it works out for you. ps- David, thanks for the fire up :P |
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Oh and for full use of your set-up, I second David's thoughts on compost tea!!! A highly valuable item around these parts!
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It sounds like you need more carbon in the pile. Maybe you could get some sawdust from a local carpenter or buisness, or incorporate lots of straw as suggested earlier. The compost pile sounds very nitrogen rich. When checking on carbon ratios online, I found something that might be valuable from Washington University:
http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/fundamentals/needs_carbon_nitrogen.htm Good luck and let us know how it goes. -- Related to composting, I have a worm bin to compost our organic waste which is a great choice for anyone who lives a little further away from the garden or apartment dwellers. I look forward to adding the worm castings to the broccoli growing on our balcony! |
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Hey, all:
Yeah, Sarah "dharmaharvest" is right about the dampness of lawn clippings maybe not improving the moisture problem. Ah, since I don't "do" lawns anymore (big waste of tons of resources of many kinds, including weekends mowing--yuukkk) I didn't think of that enough. You can actually feel the dampness in a handful of fresh-cut lawn grass, so it probably should be allowed to dry until it is brown, and then turned into the compost pile. What passes for a lawn where I am comprises two species of native, short, sod-forming grass that are drought-tolerant, don't need mowing, weed control, fertilizing, etc. Plus, it is soft under the chicken's feet! Hah! David Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun! |
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Ha! Yeah... well the lawn issue is a whole OTHER topic of discussion entirely. I'm with you David.
How's it going Dana? Warm day today in NE- LOTS of wet... ~Sarah |
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Greetings all,
How about the black perforated drain tile in the pile? I have used piece that were from our community freecycle and ran them through my piles to increase airflow. They are pretty flexible and in a standard pallet bin you can have them snake around and back up so air can flow through the entire pile. It seems to be working here and I am in Western Wa where the rain hasn't seemed to stop for 5 months or so. My challenge is trying to get a new bin started during our downpour so the finished pile isn't full of uncomposted stuff. I suppose I can sift in the spring (if it is dry enough but that is doubtful). I plan to spend more time on Biodynamic Compost this year. Thanks for starting this group Dana! |
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Getting C/N ratios is key, as well as good air flow, I use the cardboard paper rolls left over from all the x-mas paper rolls (tons at your local mall of big box store) and old poster tubes in a pile that helps get air into the pile, they compost after a turn. Building up a more woody base of stalks and such at the bottom helps with circulation, I also have a few perforated peices of 1" copper tubbing I stick into a pile to get air in, the microbes eat away at the cooper, which is also good trace minerals.
Tea rocks as well as catalysts as a star for ones piles. Adding some more functions to ones pile, I LOVE placing a 100+ feet of black poly pipe with Y values at the entry and exit. Cold water going in, with pressure from the line, Hot water comes out the other end, tied into a simple hose system, this is a great Solar/Compost Shower, A pile here in Central CA when it is cloudy for two weeks in the winter is still 140 on the inside, with water at 100+ for two weeks! Pre-heating or direct! I cover with a tarp with old yogurt containers in between that prop it up 5-6" for good air flow between the tarp and pile. So much fun in the pile! Turn on! |
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Lots of good advice here. If you are short on cardboard tubes come July, try corn or sunflower stalks cut into 2-3' chunks. The core rots quickly and they act like an air tube into/through your pile.
Water management can be tricky, we have clay soils here so drainage is an issue. I lay a 1-2" mat of twigs or willow or pine boughs under the pile to help the water exit. This make turning the bottom more difficult, but the pile does drain much better. |
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Hey folks, thanks a lot. This thing works! Applying the principles you introduced, I'm glad to report some improvement. You're right, it's about water management, and composting during the winter is just harder here. Still, revisiting a 4-week-old stockpile reveals that today's output is drier, smells sweeter, and has more fiber. This I attribute to tarps supported tentlike from a ridge line (and removed in dry weather) and the leaves, of which I have at least a winter's supply, working their way through the pile. Plus I have your beautiful creative ideas to process for the future. You might hear from me privately. Wow, cardboard tubes, sunflower stalks, compost showers, and compost tea! Again, heartfelt thanks. Dana
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Glad to help DanaW!
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Hi all,
new to this network, happy to throw in on composting as it's a passion of mine! A couple of things caught my eye here - I think there is some difference between what liquid comes out of the bottom of your pile (leachate) and compost tea - which I am learning is a bit more complex. One thing I've just learned is that soaking my compost in water and feeding the water to my plants might actually not be so smart, because I haven't been aerating the tea. So I've been allowing anerobic organisms to take over. It is suggested that you aerate your tea, perhaps at a small scale you can do this with aquarium pump eg in 5-gal pail. That way you keep the aerobic organisms alive to inoculate your soil! The other disturbing thing I'm learning about compost tea, is that if you make it with municipal water as opposed to rainwater or your own well water, you could be adding chloramines, which are a relatively new substitute for chlorine. Check with your municipal water folks to see if they are using chloramines, which cannot be evaporated off like chlorine. They are more stable & are there TO KILL MICRO-ORGANISMS! So, not much point in making your compost tea with that, as you are just killing off the wonderful biodiversity you've just helped to foster in your pile. I'm guessing a few of us are in cities and need this information! Also, a great source of browns is wood chips. Small surface area (not too small, like sawdust - no good) but will support lots of fungal biodiversity in compost. cheers everyone happy composting |
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Glad you're having some wintry success Dana.
Welcome to the group Sunday Harrison! The tea is a trick and unfortunately our mainstream water systems are not the best source of good water because of the chlorine-based-whatever-substitute-all-organism-killing-additives. Lots of good thoughts here for all of us to add to our composting lists... Benjammin, I'd love to hear more about heat from piles and ways in which to use it. On a small scale set-up, I'm sure it works great... but do you think some sort of larger heating process would take away from the heat the pile needs and proper decomp? Got to love this stuff! |
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Does anyone have experience with shredded office paper as a source of carbon? If so, are there any concerns about toner residues?
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Hi Sandy! We stopped using the shredded office paper in our worm bins, here at home and at the urban farm project, because the cellophane windows would not compost down. Also we became concerned about the bleached paper factor. So we now use shredded newspaper. I don't have any experience with the carbon factor, but i do know that leaves or leaf mold is a great source of carbon! I hope this helps. Linda
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Anyone interested in discussing compost? Here in the snowy NE, where I manage the compost for a 350-member community, it's tough to keep the product light. The stuff's turning out wet and heavy, in a word, mud. My main inputs are table scraps, paper towels, horse manure, & leaves. The latter are just working their way out the end of our 10-week cycle, 2 50-foot parallel piles turned by hand (pitchforks) once a week. We depend on drainage from the natural slope of the site. I put great hopes on the leaves which seem to help the texture by adding structure, air, and carbon to our otherwise nitrogen-heavy mix. Right?
We're rigging up tarps to keep off snow & rain.
Any advice? What are you doing?
Dana
P.S. Thank you, Christine, for creating this group.