Net Impact Chapter at SFSU
A Global Network of Leaders Changing the World through Business.
A Collaboration of Students and Faculty at San Francisco State University. We seek opportunities to learn about innovative ideas surrounding sustainability, to contribute our ideas and efforts, and to develop our careers in the field of sustainability.
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Created: Nov 02, 2007
Updated: May 03, 2009
Membership: Open To Apply
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It might be worthwhile getting this one going with some thoughts about underlying principles. Three things come to the fore for me on the hosting issue:
- Open source rather than a proprietary platform. I guess this means going with the LAMP stack, or at least part of it.
- Energy: hosting uses lots of power. There are some green hosting options that use servers designed to be more energy efficient, and datacentres that run on renewable energy. We should be looking to establish some guidelines or standards, or maybe work with someone else's guidelines/standards to help us select hosting providers.
- Resilience: For me a lot of this is about not putting all your eggs into one basket. In hosting terms this means not putting all your sites onto one server, or even into one datacentre or one part of the world, but spreading your hosting around so that your networks stay up longer and better when power outages occur and when cables get cut.
Green Energy?
Co-op business model?
Hosting everyone's sites or recommending hosting choices and behaviours?
Mesh networking?
Comments (1 - 20 of 57)
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Here's an update on the ecofont: I tried using it on the Transition Town Dorchester June 2009 newsletter - and in this particular newsletter there was a lot of text, it was a real struggle keeping to two A4 sides. Compare:I normally use Arial font size 11 for the newsletters, any smaller and i think some people may struggle reading. Problems I found with using the ecofont:
My conclusion: From a design point of view the lack of a bold option is limiting, and the spilling over to 3 pages (like for like font size) makes using ecofont seem a bit pointless.
Result: Will I be using ecofont and would I recommend it?...
On first impressions it looked good, but I think it's in need of some fine tuning - until then, I won't be using ecofont and won't be recommending it.
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Transition Town Dorchester - May Newsletter using Eco Font Transition Town Dorchester - May Newsletter standard font I'm going to start use the EcoFont for our Transition newsletters and it'll be interesting to see what the reaction is. The Transition Network has a load of documents that are printed thousands of times around the world - and I think it would be seriously worth considering moving to the ecofont, especially for large popular documents like the Transition Primer.
Swiss cheese anyone?
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I am going through the TT fora and Ning gathering discussions for the recommendations and we missed this one from the forums: |
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Hostpapa update: I've been in touch with them a few times now, and plopped the basic Transition Web Project info on their virtual desk for a ponder, sent an invite here to get involved in the discussions/ take a look at the project blurb for consideration. Contact is: Paul Filice / General Manager
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I have not personally gone into the bowels of each site are read their mathematics. I am only supplying the lists.
I did just now, though, go the super green hosting, and it is weird that they were given highest environmental grade. i have suggested you really cannot know unless you read the full details.
so one cannot even rely on the reviews for accuracy. i had never thought that a host booking itself as green would be using trees as an offset. what about the site that claimed it was 300% green or something? what is that all about?
well, there is some dicing and slicing that still needs to be done.
i can find nothing so far on SUPER, DREAM or GOOD AVO, to indicate they are running 100% on green energy
here is HOST PAPA, or whatever, which sound similar to what i read at thinkhost.
How do we do it? We have actually calculated that, since we started to purchase green energy in 2006, we have removed roughly 40,000 kg of CO2 emissions and other greenhouse gases affecting our environment. That's the equivalent of removing 20 cars from the highway each year! By purchasing the green energy certificates, we have completely offset the amount of greenhouse gas production by our current electricity providers with certified wind and solar-power providers in Canada and the United States.
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From their site Super Green Hosting seem to base their claims on use of lower energy servers and an offsetting programme involving planting lots of trees. No mention of use of renewable energy. Not an approach that rates too highly on my scoresheet.
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@Macrocosm - Agree, not heard of Super Green Hosting, Dream Host or Good Avocado before, and think it would be worthwhile throwing these on the list for consideration. If you feel ThinkHost is being mis-represented here, then I'm glad to be informed. However, I will exercise my right to navigate my own opinion, and probably wouldn't take kindly to being told how to read ratings! Transparency: I'm an average Joe paying customer with zero interest in ANY of these companies. However, I would like to use the right one for our Transition Town + switch my own personal websites, and I'd be happy to promote these Green Web Energy findings to others. Does anyone here work at these companies, or others we haven't mentioned, or have an interest? (I know Charles is at GAIA Host Collective). |
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I am not pushing Thinkhost, I just mentioned that http://www.512memo.com/2008/12/best-green-web-hosting.html rated it number one where it had been the underdog else where, and it was the most current review site.
I supplied the links too because there were one or two new names I had not heard before and I felt perhaps if someone was motivated they might want to take a look. According to the OTHER LINK i supplied, GOOD AVOCADO and SUPER GREEN HOSTING (2 never or not discussed much here) was acknowledged as having A rated environmental leanings, where THINKHOST was a B+. The reviews are by feature rating, NOT reviews apparently, starting with DISK SPACE. Some are not UNLIMITED disk space.
I agree, I rely greatly on consumer feedback too, in fact, for just about everything. But sometimes that can be highly unreliable too and you must read actual complaint, and actually research the reality. Do I have to tell people how to read ratings now?
All down time is recorded and easily accessible at thinkhost. When I found my site down for any reason in the past, it sometimes ended up being some technical issue that had little to nothing to do with them. On occasion it was the domain supplier. One time it was a hacker. Then, one time something was seriously wrong with my browser. Spyware? Virus? Dunno. But for a long time Internet Explorer simply has not worked, so I gave up and only use Firefox now because I do not have the time to fix it and I suspect it has security issues.
I have had two sites with THINKHOST for many many years now. I am a user, and have never had any serious complaint. They are always helpful, and even install programs for me. All this for completely FREE because I am a nonprofit. They have some sort of affiliation with Coop America and several other groups that I like, I believe. But what I think does not matter.
Where do you see that this THINKHOST review is based on a PAY PER CLICK basis and why would it be? I am very tired of fabricated criticism here made to wrongly trash or slander. For instance, some of the false innuendo over Ning, as if it is the anti-Christ ready to be owned by Ruppert Murdoch, etc. ad nauseum.
Sandi |
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@Macrocosm - Today, according to your link the reviews are:
I don't know what to trust with review sites as they're often pay per click, I'm generally more interested in customer reviews; from which Think Host has my concerns, an example: http://www.webhostingstuff.com/review/ThinkHost.html
I don't see any of these hosting companies as being perfect, but where there's a will there's a way. |
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more green hosting reviews and sites
http://www.greenhostinggeeks.com/
In this most CURRENT review, Thinkhost is rated number one http://www.512memo.com/2008/12/best-green-web-hosting.html |
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@melissa - hello, I was thinking "Which website hosting companies are being invited to the table for a questions and answers session (grilling)?"...I think perhaps what you're asking is "Who's being invited to the pilot websites?"
A question: Who and how to make sense of all this Green Energy, Eco-Web stuff?
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@steveatkins - sorry we crossed over there! Questions so far suggested are on 'pilots feedback' page - do you have suggestions? re who is being invited - my question too but maybe we should continue on that page as some poor person has to collate this at some point!
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For some reason this discussion is really tickling me! I think it would be brilliant if some of these sites could be explored and if necessary de-bunked. That would leave a great set of tips and links for transitioners to greenify their computer use - both personally and as groups. Along the same lines, what a great freebie for individual projects if there was a link/page for initiative sites to 'green computing advice' arising out of this pilot (one thing you know about site visitors is that they use computers!) This could include advice re 'energy saving modes' - loads of bunkum here), what to do with old computers, what OS are lower energy, more robust etc, critiques of offsetting gimmicks, etc. Also feeds into the training routemap thing mentioned somewhere. (sorry, have to get outside *now*!)
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@ed - well, um, I don't know?... all i know is that, in practical hosting terms, we're very happy with their service so far; generally Hostpapa get lots of stars with good customer reviews.
Who's being invited to interview? Questions? How might potential hosts be encouraged to get on the Transition path? Minimum requirements? Zero greenwash policy would be nice! |
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sorry chaps - I can't quite tell - do you think that hostpapa provided you with a practicable response then?
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@steveatkins That was a response (or non-response?).
For reference BEF is ( http://www.b-e-f.org/ ) and the Center for Resource Solutions is ( http://www.green-e.org/ ), both reputable organizations in the world of green tags...but they could do a lot to look at embodied green houses and their methods for calculating energy use to include ancillary equipment that enables the computers (hosting servers) to run.
I'd be really great to see other green hosting providers really take their green aspirations more deeply...thanks for pushing that envelope of awareness with HostPapa. |
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@charles - I edited your Green Tag info into a question and emailed it to Hostpapa. As I'm no expert I don't know if this is a hot, cold or luke warm response!...I've also asked them if they'd like to send someone here for a look at the project (hope nobody minds). Are they allowed here?...I mean, you let me in here, so I figured 1+1=4
Here's the question I sent: I currently use Hostpapa (specifically chosen for Green Energy credentials). RE: Hostpapa have removed 40,000 kg (that's 40 metric tons) of CO2 emissions since 2006 (assuming 2006, 2007, 2008).
Hi Steve, We purchase BEF Green Tags to offset our energy usage. We are e-cerfified the Centre of Resource Solutions. Our contract for tags is negotiated with these companies on a yearly basis and I do not have access to the contract.
@ed - I like Big Green Server, and that's quite a list of responses stuff, i like the eco-button, typically not currently available for mac : ( Lots of interesting stuff there to investigate, but I ran out of time. waaaah, frost tonight - gotta cover up the courgette!.......bye |
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dropping this in from the survey responses quickly:
Although minimising computer usage is the best way to be an environmentally friendly computer user, here are some things that may help reduce your impact and do some good for the world. Perhaps you could share these tips. -Turn off the computer (and other appliances) off at the wall when not in use. -Buy and install an ecobutton www.eco-button.com -Print on 100% recycled, non-bleached paper using both sides and using environmentally friendly font Spanq Eco Sans www.ecofont.eu ....and a few more things I compiled awhile ago. How to offset carbon for free All you need is the Internet (and Firefox preferably: www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/) Remove CO2 from the atmosphere and help the world by doing common activities like searching, clicking, and social networking. Step1 Search with www.GoodSearch.com Type "carbon fund" (or any other offsetting organization) where it says to enter a charity, and press Enter. Step2 Install the Care2 toolbar from www.care2.com/toolbar Every day it's enabled, they will donate money to save 25 square feet of Amazonian Rainforest. Step3 Install Brighter Planet's 350 Badge from www.350.BrighterPlanet.com The company will offset 350 pounds of carbon after it's installed on your blog. Step4 (Lil) Green Patch Install (Lil) Green Patch and Carbon Neutral Profile on Facebook. They both offset carbon. Step5 Click daily at www.EcologyFund.com and www.StopGlobalWarming.Care2.org. Every day you click at these sites, a combined three pounds will be offset. I suggest emailing them to bring that number up. Step6 Bookmark and visit the following click to give sites daily: www.therainforestsite.com (Click to protect endangered habitat) www.redjellyfish.com/wildlifeconservation.html (Save rainforests and chimps) http://www.care2.com/click2donate/ (Sign up and help support multiple causes) http://cannecy.free.fr/solar/index.php (Covert clicks to solar energy) Step7 Donate freely to Global Warming-related causes through Microsoft. You can search at www.searchandgive.com Works with IM and Email through Live Messenger and Hotmail (with the "i'm" program), and at Club.Live.com. Step8 Get Green Beta at www.inferknow.com/green Green offsets your computer’s carbon footprint for free while you browse the web. It uses revenue from the webpage ads you see everyday to pay for carbon credits. Step9 Install Blank Your Monitor at: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/7166 BYM: Saves the environment and your eyes by changing webpage background colours to black. Black screens use less energy, strain your eyes less and increase legibility of onscreen text. (CRT screens only) Step10 Set your homepage to KeepGlobe search engine: www.keepglobe.com KeepGlobe is hosted on a green server, powered by sun and wind energy. 50% of revenue generated is donated to a green cause. KeepGlobe uses Google search because Google is a green company. Step11 Sign up to Click Green at: www.clickgreen.com.au/engine.cfm ClickGreen will send you emails from sponsors. You will earn "offset credits" by viewing and clicking on these emails. The more offset credits you earn, the more trees we will plant! Seventeen trees over their lifetime will offset your carbon emission for one year. This means that by making one click-a-day you will become Carbon Neutral for a whole year Step12 Add the My Green Profile profile at: http://apps.facebook.com/ecoprofile Certify that you are aware of your profile's energy usage by adding an eco-stamp to your profile. For every 10,000 users registered to use My Green Profile, we will donate money and buy carbon offset credits. Step13 Install Green Pulse from http://greenpulse.co.za/ Save money and the environment by controlling the power usage of your computer. Carbon Offset Games Game 1 Take the Carbon Offset Quiz at: http://apps.facebook.com/carbons We'll donate carbon offsets every time you answer a question correctly. You can answer as many questions as you want. Questions will get harder as you continue to get them right. Game 2 Answer the green JoGo Green Quiz questions at http://jogogreen.com/index.php For each 10 correct answers, we will plant one tree in a deforested area of Africa. Together we can save the world. |
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@steveatkins - hosts and partnerships - given that there is very likely to be some hosted element of the web project (we may be hosting the network website, aggregation/re-syndication engine, projects database, possible regional presences for example) - this is bound to be on a suitable web host (as genuinely 'green' as we can get, as 'ethical' as possible etc.). Given that, it seems wise to approach any likely web host with a long term view - of possibly being a recommendation for all Transition Initiatives - as @garyalex says - a 'big green server'... (?)
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Steve, if this is useful, I tried using this software a while back to save ink on my inkjet printer (before the printer broke and I decided to think really hard prior to printing anything). Weakness is the fact that it costs money and every one of your reader's pc must have it. Plus, there's no Mac or Linux version. But if things are printed in one place for distribution, this could come in handy.